Our Lady of Fatima

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Our Lady of Fatima

Post  OptimusGonzo on Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:06 pm

Strange, but true?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Fatima
The first two secrets


The first secret was a vision of Hell, which Lucia describes in her Third Memoir, written in 1942, as follows:
"Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under
the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form,
like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze,
floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the
flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of
smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire,
without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and
despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons
could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to
frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision
lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind
heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first
Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died
of fear and terror."[9]
The second secret included Mary's instructions on how to save souls from Hell and convert the world to the Catholic faith:
"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save
them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate
Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there
will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease
offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI.
When you see a night illuminated by an unknown light, know that this is
the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world
for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays.
If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be
peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing
wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the
Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be
annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy
Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a
period of peace will be granted to the world."[10]



You hear that Russia? CONVERT TO THE IMMACULATE HEART OR BURN!
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  SDBolts on Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:16 pm

What have they done wrong :/
Communism is over, religion is back!!! But those prophecies were from WW2 lol, so things have changed! Very Happy
ALLAHU AKBAR!
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  77RUS on Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:26 am

SDBolts wrote:ALLAHU AKBAR!

friend, please don't write such words. I understand it's just religion, but these words associate with chechen terrorist in our minds. Wink it's not the question of religion, i respect all of them.
These words were used by terrorists when they killed our innocent ppl, so, please understand, that it's hard to read.
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  SDBolts on Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:57 pm

Allahu Akbar is Arabic for God is great...
I am not Muslim, I am Catholic, but I am Arabic, and is not God the greatest?!?! Cool

Tell the stupid fanatics to use the phrase correctly! How is it relevant that God is great when you are killing people?!?!? Stupid retards...
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  OptimusGonzo on Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:32 pm

SDBolts wrote:Allahu Akbar is Arabic for God is great...
I am not Muslim, I am Catholic, but I am Arabic, and is not God the greatest?!?! Cool

Tell the stupid fanatics to use the phrase correctly! How is it relevant that God is great when you are killing people?!?!? Stupid retards...

read this from Michael YOn's Blog SD

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/7-rules-1-oath.htm

An Iraqi Colonel was generous enough to offer that he believed it to
be just a mistake that “God is Great” was left off the flag that was
used on the slides. But the Iraqis all agreed that nobody was going to
sign anything that displayed an Iraqi flag without the phrase “God is
Great.”
This might seem ominous to us. “Allah u Akbar!” are, after all,
words that we have become accustomed to hearing when someone is doing
something bad, like burning an American flag, or blowing up Americans.
But these issues are more like the intense legal and media battles over
the words “In God We Trust” on the money in our pockets, or the ongoing
furor in some sectors over the phrase “One Nation, Under God,
Indivisible . . . ” in the Pledge of Allegiance. (Not to mention the
dust storms kicked up by the Pledge itself.)
Seeing “God is Great” written on the Iraqi flag might provoke some to protest “Why did we come here just to stand up a country who would write such things on their flag?”
But I sat there in that meeting, which was completely civil and
professional, and I thought about another flag, the one flying over
South Carolina. Some people call that flag “heritage,” while others
call it “hateful,” “painful” and “demeaning.” And today in that
meeting, I thought about the descendants of slaves who are now top
military commanders in the American Army, and in that moment I knew
that Iraq could make it.

Iraq Can Make it, but only if we put our entire hearts minds and souls into our effort there, which this nation has not displayed a will to do formerly.
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  SDBolts on Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:38 pm

Well thanks to our fucktard Bush, the country is in the mess to start with...
And that Colonel is very wise!!! God bless him!!!
And yes I will say it again!!! ALLAHU AKBAR!!!
And you tell me that those who those who truly believe in the one true God and use the phrase to express that when doing something following God, you tell me that is being a terrorist! So what is the case now, ALL Arabs, not just the gay fanatics, are terrorists!!!
To rub it in:
ALLAHU AKBAR! xD
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  77RUS on Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:59 am

SDBolts wrote:Allahu Akbar is Arabic for God is great...
I am not Muslim, I am Catholic, but I am Arabic, and is not God the greatest?!?! Cool

Tell the stupid fanatics to use the phrase correctly! How is it relevant that God is great when you are killing people?!?!? Stupid retards...


i know it. but please, this praze is so hatefull in Russia. only terrorists, criminals and muslim gangs use it on public
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  77RUS on Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:03 am

SDBolts wrote:And you tell me that those who those who truly believe in the one true God and use the phrase to express that when doing something following God, you tell me that is being a terrorist! So what is the case now, ALL Arabs, not just the gay fanatics, are terrorists!!!
To rub it in:
ALLAHU AKBAR! xD

i didn't say that!!! i said that terrorists during their acts use this phraze! and it associates in russian minds like something hatefull and wrong. These scumns chechen terrorists killed our children with this phraze

and i don't pay attention to what that phraze means. it could mean "Bla-bla" or some other sense.
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  SDBolts on Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:08 am

I wasn't saying that to you, but to Optimus :/
Also, then what the hell does "In God We Trust" mean on all our money? Just the financial corruption of the rich and wealthy stealing from the poor? So it doesn't represent our trust in God?
Also, Allahu Akbar is on the Iraqi flag! So you take it out with them if you have problems with it!
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  OptimusGonzo on Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:02 pm

SDBolts wrote:I wasn't saying that to you, but to Optimus :/
Also, then what the hell does "In God We Trust" mean on all our money? Just the financial corruption of the rich and wealthy stealing from the poor? So it doesn't represent our trust in God?
Also, Allahu Akbar is on the Iraqi flag! So you take it out with them if you have problems with it!

Bolts all he's saying is that its offensive in certain contexts which is why He'd rather not hear it at all. ITs like saying "You are Fucked". That phrased can either mean that you've had sexual intercorse, or more likely that its a very derogative way of saying you've been defeated or been dealt a serious loss or even more closely, You're screwed. He just doesn't like to hear it or read it. Using the Phrase Allahu Akbar in a sentence where it stands alone is like saying TE SERVI! or SCREW YOU! OR YOU GOT SERVED! Except you bring God into it, as if He's chosen sides. Maybe you honestly think that God has chosen sides in something as trivial as an informational debate. But to differentiate, Westerners put In God we Trust on our money because we do trust in him. and ultimately you have to. You have to trust, even as a hardcore athiest, that the world you live in and percieve is what it really is. So by a financial and more secular standpoint, putting it on our money only means that we trust God to make our money what its valued at, Since the worth of something is totally dependent on what value people place on it.
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  SDBolts on Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:06 pm

The proper use of ALLAHU AKBAR is when something great happens and God be praised! The stupid terrorists pervert that, damn them!

It's like how the rainbow is the sign of God's Covenant to Noah! And now homosexuals fuckin steal the holy symbol and make it their homo, fag pride shit...
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  77RUS on Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:56 am

OptimusGonzo wrote:
SDBolts wrote:I wasn't saying that to you, but to Optimus :/
Also, then what the hell does "In God We Trust" mean on all our money? Just the financial corruption of the rich and wealthy stealing from the poor? So it doesn't represent our trust in God?
Also, Allahu Akbar is on the Iraqi flag! So you take it out with them if you have problems with it!

Bolts all he's saying is that its offensive in certain contexts which is why He'd rather not hear it at all. ITs like saying "You are Fucked". That phrased can either mean that you've had sexual intercorse, or more likely that its a very derogative way of saying you've been defeated or been dealt a serious loss or even more closely, You're screwed. He just doesn't like to hear it or read it. Using the Phrase Allahu Akbar in a sentence where it stands alone is like saying TE SERVI! or SCREW YOU! OR YOU GOT SERVED! Except you bring God into it, as if He's chosen sides. Maybe you honestly think that God has chosen sides in something as trivial as an informational debate. But to differentiate, Westerners put In God we Trust on our money because we do trust in him. and ultimately you have to. You have to trust, even as a hardcore athiest, that the world you live in and percieve is what it really is. So by a financial and more secular standpoint, putting it on our money only means that we trust God to make our money what its valued at, Since the worth of something is totally dependent on what value people place on it.


Thanks for understanding! YOu are right. and it's not only for me
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  backtothegrave on Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:18 am

OptimusGonzo wrote:Strange, but true?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Fatima
The first two secrets


The first secret was a vision of Hell, which Lucia describes in her Third Memoir, written in 1942, as follows:
"Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under
the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form,
like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze,
floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the
flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of
smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire,
without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and
despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons
could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to
frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision
lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind
heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first
Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died
of fear and terror."[9]
The second secret included Mary's instructions on how to save souls from Hell and convert the world to the Catholic faith:
"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save
them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate
Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there
will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease
offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI.
When you see a night illuminated by an unknown light, know that this is
the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world
for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays.
If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be
peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing
wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the
Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be
annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy
Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a
period of peace will be granted to the world."[10]



You hear that Russia? CONVERT TO THE IMMACULATE HEART OR BURN!

don't trust it at all, at least because the 2nd secret was revealed in august 1941 (as is told in wiki too). anyway catholic curch always tried to convert russian ortodox to the catholic creed, and i feel it more like a propaganda move as a true revelation. somehow i feel more trustable the 3rd secret, but anyway i don't trust too much catholic church... nor other curches, to tell the truth!!!
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  OptimusGonzo on Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:27 pm

backtothegrave wrote:

don't trust it at all, at least because the 2nd secret was revealed in august 1941 (as is told in wiki too). anyway catholic curch always tried to convert russian ortodox to the catholic creed, and i feel it more like a propaganda move as a true revelation. somehow i feel more trustable the 3rd secret, but anyway i don't trust too much catholic church... nor other curches, to tell the truth!!!

lol, and that coming from an Italian? thats pretty objective man. Personally I haven't found much of a sense of spirituality in my life, but then again I haven't looked for it, and the things I like best about religion are others' stories of spirituality and various parts of Religious history.
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  backtothegrave on Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:04 am

OptimusGonzo wrote:
backtothegrave wrote:

don't trust it at all, at least because the 2nd secret was revealed in august 1941 (as is told in wiki too). anyway catholic curch always tried to convert russian ortodox to the catholic creed, and i feel it more like a propaganda move as a true revelation. somehow i feel more trustable the 3rd secret, but anyway i don't trust too much catholic church... nor other curches, to tell the truth!!!

lol, and that coming from an Italian? thats pretty objective man. Personally I haven't found much of a sense of spirituality in my life, but then again I haven't looked for it, and the things I like best about religion are others' stories of spirituality and various parts of Religious history.

well, italians are known as good catholic, at least in europe. anyway nowadays catholics are getting fewer, mostly because italians don't like at all the way of the new pope, he's too stern and dogmatic.
as for myself, i've left the catholic way at the age of 13, and i've been trough atheism, agnosticism and syncretism since then. now i'm pelagian, and i hope i've found a bit of "spiritual stability".
anyway i cannot think spirituality apart from freedom, that's why i don't like churces. that's why i chose pelagianism, wich is more a philosopy of life than a religion (and has no church at all, and no dogmas!!)
i too like stories of spirituality (and i know the gospels better than most christians).
anyway, if i'm allowed to, i'd like to give you an advice: there's no sense in searching spirituality, it's already inside you. think of what you feel about justice, beauty, the sense of life,and most of all freedom, and you'll find out your interior spirituality. that's what i've done. it all started while i was looking at the stars in a winter night....
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  OptimusGonzo on Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:06 pm

That's what alot of people have told me about spirituality, but I also see that people have experienced God in different ways, ways that more directly show his presence, and I personally have not tried to find God in those ways, is what I'm saying. So you Believe that Jesus's Sacrifice was not necessary?
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  SDBolts on Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:14 pm

OH TO HIGH HEAVENS IT WAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!! GRR, I am devout to my God and I don't want anyone jacking with that. Church corruption isn't gonna make me lose faith in God.

For those who are secular humanists and whatnot, well, in all essence ATHEISTS, then too bad, I will pray for you! You must find Christ sometime or another!
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  OptimusGonzo on Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:34 pm

SDBolts wrote:OH TO HIGH HEAVENS IT WAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!! GRR, I am devout to my God and I don't want anyone jacking with that. Church corruption isn't gonna make me lose faith in God.

For those who are secular humanists and whatnot, well, in all essence ATHEISTS, then too bad, I will pray for you! You must find Christ sometime or another!

That's not what he believes. He believes that people were divinely created good, but then if you say that then you say that Jesus did not die for us, he just lived his life as an example. Personally, I love the passage where Lazarus and the Rich man are in Heaven and Hell respectively, and then the rich man says, oh no Father Abraham, but surely if someone came back from the dead, they would believe! and Abe says If they do not belive in Moses and the Prophets, then they will not believe someone who has returned from the dead.


Irony is Everywhere.


And the Lord God said, LET THERE BE IRONY! and nothing happened.
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  backtothegrave on Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:19 am

IMHO, i don't believe Jesus to be the ONE and ONLY son of God, everyone is son of God. what Jesus did was to bring his own humanity to higher levels, and so he became an example to other men.
as for miracles and other things, they're manifestations of human faith and not of God's will. if God showed himself to men by miracles he would force men's choice one way or the other. but God's will (IMHO) is in leaving men free, free to choose good or evil. and then after death pay the consequences of their choices. that's why i don't like dogmas, because they are against men's free will. churches keep telling you what's good or bad, but i think everyone is able to tell by himself what's good or bad.
churches always try to force your choices
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  OptimusGonzo on Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:20 pm

well I can understand that , but I can also understand the other side of the arguement, that Churches help guide individuals in making a decision because the Church has to come to a universal decision too. All I have to say is that there is a fine line in some respects between God's will and Free will, and in other places further up or down the line it gets very hazy, and there may be alot of overlap since God may will us to freely do what he wants. Is that not the reason why we have free will? how could we ever love God fully if we never had the will to question our love of him?
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  backtothegrave on Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:31 am

OptimusGonzo wrote:well I can understand that , but I can also understand the other side of the arguement, that Churches help guide individuals in making a decision because the Church has to come to a universal decision too. All I have to say is that there is a fine line in some respects between God's will and Free will, and in other places further up or down the line it gets very hazy, and there may be alot of overlap since God may will us to freely do what he wants. Is that not the reason why we have free will? how could we ever love God fully if we never had the will to question our love of him?

i think everyone came to life with his own coscience, and as soon he gets adult enough can tell by himself what's good or wrong. this coscience is given by God, that's the only rule God gives us.that's the meaning of free will. what i mean for good or bad, is not what the catholic church means. for me good is getting yourself to a higher level of humanity, bad is becoming less human.
every creature is born to be itself, and mankind is not an exception.
being man means having base istincts, but not being prone to them. also means have great abstract ideals to follow. catholic church feels the material aspect of mankind as sinful, i feel it as simply human, and necessary to humanity. the "perfect man" is the one who finds a stability between his spiritual part and his animal one, in which no part overcome the other.
to sum up, loving God comes out to be natural, because who loves his own nature and the nature of creation around him, loves God; even if he doesn't know which name give to Him, or even if he calls Him with different names.
loving the creation is to love the Creator. and viceversa.
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  OptimusGonzo on Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:18 pm

backtothegrave wrote: ...to sum up, loving God comes out to be natural, because who loves his own nature and the nature of creation around him, loves God; even if he doesn't know which name give to Him, or even if he calls Him with different names.
loving the creation is to love the Creator. and viceversa.

That seems to be a very clear and different view compared to what you've been through before, especially atheism. I've seen a certain Atheist's videos on youtube, a nut by the name of Pat Condell, and I only call him a nut because his attack on religion is really unfounded. Personally I've found myself to follow many Catholic principals & lessons on Morality without even needing much guidance other than understanding the basis behind their reasonings, which I guess is actually alot of guidance when you think about how much reasoning Catholics put into their explanations and reasonings for their beliefs. What I guess I'm really saying by all that is since I've left grade school and I've no longer been hammered on knowning everything there is to know about Catholicism, retaining the knowledge of the reasoning behind Catholic teachings makes it still much easier to understand.

Probably the biggest difference between what I personally believe and what the Church teaches is in the objectivity of their morality. First of all, I'd note that the whole world is Relative, and based on that, entire religions have claimed that what we experience is not at all what we percieve. My brother who takes a more objective look on the world kind of takes perception for granted, which seems to be a staple of western thought and philosophy.
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Re: Our Lady of Fatima

Post  backtothegrave on Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:39 am

not all that is real we see, and not all that we see is real Smile
i don't deny any point of view, anyway i have my own wich i deem the best for me. maybe someone perceives the world the "catholic way", someone else "the muslim way". no way is wrong or right by principle, but only one way is YOUR way. that's why i've little trust in churches, because i think impossible for millions of people to think, feel, see things the same way. many of them are forced to, many are misguided, some other maybe are true faithful of that religion.
i think that everyone should find his own way gradually, through mistakes and changes of ideas. too often, in italy expecially, children are forced to become catholic through catholic propaganda at school, or in the families.
luckily that's slowly changing, thanks to muslims, atheists, agnostics who defend religious freedom.

after all, i've known many "atheists", and i found that few of them are really atheists, instead most of them are agnostics, or people that simply haven't found their way yet. being completely atheist is almost impossible.
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